Friday, May 13, 2005

Why ID is Bullplop

I've read about intelligent design. And here's the gist of it:
"There are some things that we don't fully understand. Therefore, there can be only one explanation: MAGIC."

This is what we want to base our scientific education on?

If you look at Darwin's theories, there's nothing that really says that evolution is incompatible with belief in god. Maybe god directs evolution. Who knows? Nobody! And nobody CAN know. So, if evolution is not necessarily incompatible with belief in god, why do we need so-called intelligent design?

Because religious-types want to re-assert the dominance of god over science, just as they've tried to squelch any scientific discovery that challenged their fervent and blind belief in whatever religion their parent raised them in. You see, religious folks tend to claim to have absolute faith in their religion. But in reality they realize that their beliefs are as tenuous and unstable as a house of cards. And if you start poking at a house of cards, eventually it collapses. So, when the finger of science and fact and observation starts poking at the religious house of cards, religious folks do whatever they can to chop that finger off.

In regards to the "evidence" for intelligent design:

About the appendix: Studies HAVE in fact been done on this subject. By scientists, even. And they have found no significant correlation.

To learn more about this research, visit your local library, or just be lazy like me and go here:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=1783053&dopt=Abstract
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=9578295&dopt=Abstract
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=725525&dopt=Abstract

Here's what the neo-creationists would have you believe about the appendix:
Thinking Biblically about the appendix

Let’s assume that modern science knew of no function for the appendix. Would that show it was a useless left-over from our past evolution from the animals? Not at all. There would be at least two other possibilities, when our thinking is based upon the Bible:
1. It had a created function in people originally, but as a result of the Curse (consequent upon Adam’s sin) on all creation, humanity has degenerated. Thus, our body has lost some functions which it once had. Evolution requires a gain in information—new structures, new functions.
2. It has a created function, but we don’t know what it is yet.

So, basically, here are your choices:
The appendix is a vestige of a once-vital organ, similar to the same organ in animals that still have a cellulose-rich diet. The ancillary fact that the appendix still retains a minor function in the lymphatic system explains the slight elevation in cancer risk among those who have had their appendix removed.
or
A magic man who lives in the sky shriveled our once mighty appendixes (appendices?) to punish us for eating the fruit from the tree of knowledge (don't even get me started on the implications of this cautionary tale). Personally, I can think of a lot of things god could have shriveled that would have been far worse punishment. Well, one thing in particular anyway.

To get to some of Wazoo's points:
"Does it mean that, if it weren't for ID theory, this information would never have been discovered? Probably, unless all Evolutionary Biologists decided to remove their appendices and they all got cancer."

I can see your point, that challenges (no matter how stupid) can help to increase knowledge and understanding. But might we not be better off if scientists spent their time on new discoveries and new research, rather than fending off creationists' attempts to grasp at any last straw they can? Also, I believe medical doctors were the first to raise the question of the function of the appendix and the possible complications with its removal, not creationists.

As to this point:
"Is ID a credible scientific theory? Yes. It´s not Creationism, not by a longshot. And if that´s the claim you´re making, you probably need to read someone besides Richard Dawkins. Hell, some of the ID guys even have Ph.Ds."

This is absolutely incorrect. What evidence exists for "intelligent design," or, as I like to call it, "Because Jesus Made It That Way?"

This website features some arguments from "Because Jesus Made It That Way" advocates and evolutionary scientists. It's fun to see the "Because we don't understand something, the only explanation must be MAGIC" people get shot down by the science folks.

To separate BJMITW from creationism is impossible, because BJMITW is in reality the last gasp of creationism, a desperate hail mary (pun probably intended) shot at the buzzer to try to cling to the last vestige (like an appendix, I guess) of a system of stories and legends from 2000 years ago that just aren't adequate to explain the world.

6 Comments:

Blogger : said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

4:33 PM  
Blogger NateWazoo said...

Fourwall Jackson -
Civility first. Only then can you poke fun at someone.

Emery -
Coming from someone who is not defending the BIble by any means, your assessment of ID is wrong. It does not come from Creationism, though that is often asserted by scientists who don't like the challenge. And the gist of it is not, by any means, "magic." It is this: "this looks too complicated to have arisen at random. Maybe something else made it." That "something else" could be anything - Jesus, Shiva, aliens, whatever. The point is, these ID scientists aren't willing to blindly call something "chance" when "chance" is such a longshot mathematically.

5:29 PM  
Blogger emeryroolz said...

Right. So the explanation is "God, or super-intelligent space aliens." Um, I'll stick with Darwin over L. Ron Hubbard, thank you.

5:05 AM  
Blogger NateWazoo said...

Who the hell is L. Ron Hubbard?

Try Michael Behe, Ph.D. You'd be better off fighting back the attacks of real scientists rather than idiots who are pathetically easy to defeat.

And what you're essentially saying is this, if I understand you correctly:
"The idea of God or Super-Intelligent Aliens creating human beings is absurd. So I'll go with my only other option, Chance, which, even though it is mathematically beyond absurd, still sounds better than God."

Point is, if something is absurd, it shouldn't be a recourse to scientifically-minded people like yourself to fall back on another absurd explanation so long as it is popular. You do that, and your loyalty isn't to discovering the truth but to defending a theory which may or may not be able to stand on its own.

1:11 PM  
Blogger Edwardtbabinski said...

"Since evolution is not incompatible with religion why do we need I.D.?"

Well said!

May I add a list of Christian Evolutionist Resources for people to peruse?

http://www.edwardtbabinski.us/evolution/christian_evolutionists.html

6:59 PM  
Blogger NateWazoo said...

If I may...

This blog hasn't had anyone touch it for a good four months until yesterday, when people started to respond. Where the hell did you guys come from?

And to briefly answer Babinski's question - because a great many proponents of ID believe it is true. That's why they need it, anyway. Any effort to explain why they need it that assumes it's to preserve religion, and for that alone, misses the entire point.

10:58 PM  

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